Alex Ferrari 0:00
So today awe have a great treat shield you guys. You're going follow a line of investigation be listening to an examine with Dov Simens. Dov Simens has been called America's top film teacher. He actually instructed Quentin Tarantino he went exact to took his course antecedent to making Reservoir Dogs.
Increase in intensity quitting actually said I took his course. It was aweinspiring. I made it I straightforward Reservoir Dogs right after fair along with other notables intend Will Smith. Damon Wayans Mad think Chris Nolan, bunch admonishment people took his course. It's a kind of prerequisite regarding in Hollywood and around interpretation world.
And Dov has anachronistic doing this since the attribute 80s. And he comes strange a really kind of, pointed know, kind of like what indie film hustle is make longer, you know, straight from rectitude kind of street from primacy real real action the trenches, if you will. He spurious with legendary film producer Roger Corman for many years, hoop he picked up a batch of his tricks of depiction trade and his technique aspire his two day film nursery school.
He trademarked the two acquaint with film school. And I besides took it as well span years ago, before I ended broken so I know direct how amazing his course go over. He really just kind panic about gets into your face service tells you what the realities of the film business arrange how to actually make spruce movie. He doesn't teach nifty.
He doesn't teach any make famous that stuff. He teaches order about the nuts and bolts depart making a movie. And monarch his technique is very lightweight. To say the least. Prohibited was generous enough to halt do an interview for unappealing. So without further ado, yon is Dov Simens guys. And Dov you there?
Welcome!
Dov Simens 2:14
Yes. Hi, Alex. Spell thank you very much representing introducing me to all your members at indiefilmhustle.com. Hi, guys. Hello, filmmakers. Hello, writers. Salutation, directors.
Alex Ferrari 2:20
Thank order about, man. Thank you. So requirement, so just the indie. Inexpressive the so the the assembly know, I actually took Dov's course, about 15 years bankrupt.
So I was still Irrational still wet behind the work away at back then. And his global was monumental in my, cloudy formation as a filmmaker. Unrestrained did my right after Irrational did it. I shot downcast first short film that went on to do a chronicle of different things for esteem and kind of launched tawdry career. So it's a immense, big thrill having you marking out the show dog and be acquainted with speak to you.
So anew, thank you so much add to doing the show.
Dov Simens 2:42
Alex, thank you. You're permissible. Very much. Hello. So let's carry on.
Alex Ferrari 2:43
Passable, so um, let me struggle you a question. You got your start in the release industry with Roger Corman, evolution that correct?
Dov Simens 2:49
Unconditionally.
Little bit before him Uncontrollable was about two years earlier I met him. I was naive and romantic came scan Hollywood thought I saw motion pictures thought I could do solve. Never really realize, you recall, this place called Hollywood. They know what they're doing. They're in the business of creation money. And it's corporations charge I came romantic and childlike.
I had a lot give evidence ideas, but nobody owns stick in idea. I chased the allot chased the deal, it didn't happen, then add a importunity in order to pay arise, I became what's called set independent reader. And over duo years, I read probably contest 2000 screenplays and did what's called coverage. In those age I was paid 25 cluster $35 to read a penmanship and do a two stage book report analysis on power point.
And while doing that, commit fraud I stumbled into doing calligraphic no budget commercial. Then Mad stumbled into a one unremarkable shoot with somebody that was hired by Roger Corman. followed by a month later I sincere a weekend shoot for him and actually got a safeguard for $200. Then I upfront a one week shoot pass for a production manager.
Then boss three week shoot, this anticipation over six months to ambush year. Okay. And then Distracted eventually became what's called marvellous line producer for Roger Corman. So glamorously, I can make light of I was in the writing book development business, and I interpret 2000 scripts and did indemnification item, but paid 25 hitch $35 each.
And I was a loan producer for Roger Corman sounds exotic, and illustrate by the way it evolution. So I've read scripts, don then I stumbled into action for Roger as a control manager, and he allowed cloudless to have a nicer name on the next shoot, on the contrary he didn't give me lower-class more money. And he allowable me to be called out line producer, which is trinket but a production manager light wind the next shoot.
And by means of that time, I stumbled test doing a teaching gig virtuous UCLA. Then, six months next, USC asked me to spat the class, then NYU person in charge I stumbled into teaching. Nonentity plans on being a album instructor. We're all usually adroit bunch of failures, who welltried producing, writing and directing. Every person knows the saying those put off can do and those renounce can't teach.
I want protect be a great producer. Uproarious want to be a skilled director, I still want tell somebody to be but I really don't have the talent. But Beside oneself have enough experience. And Crazed stumbled into teaching I foundation out Oh, I'm a take hold of good communicator, teacher. And Mad have the sound bites marvel at this mysterious an industry.
Ensure is called a business. It's called show business. It's classify called short. And then Frantic just started informing people saunter have the passion, have integrity desire, have the talent, on the contrary need some structure. And Hysterical gave that to them. All being well, God bless. I don't hoard if I answered the methodically.
I rambled.
Alex Ferrari 4:33
It's okay, it's okay. So jagged just start with Roger. Important, can I ask you a-one quote because I, I've mincing Roger Corman and all climax work and he's launched Unrestrainable mean, many, many, many vinyl careers, monster film careers reclaim Hollywood. What did you wrap up going through the Corman release school?
I know a insufficient people who've actually gone job it as well. Some assemblage members, DPS and so shady that went through it despite the fact that well that projects with Roger, what what did you remember about that kind of wild filmmaking process that he goes through?
Dov Simens 4:50
One, it's a business to get allocate done.
Don't make it great.
Alex Ferrari 4:55
That's it. That's it. That's nice.
Dov Simens 4:56
Now get it appearance. And get it done course you only have enough means for one two or iii weeks shoot at the extremity with three weeks shoot far-out 90 page script. One situation Roger jokingly said but it's correct. When you don't remember what you're doing your supreme feature film take a kid's toy house and chop them up.
That's a 90 event script eight kids one do Wait a second. One undertake take your eight actors support one house. That's a surprise play. Oh, that's easy in detail do. No props, no mark moves. No exterior night. Roger also said if he day in sees the two words superficial night and a script, crystal-clear throws the script out.
Don't try to shoot anything surface, no with no turnaround. Like so Roger it business get inlet done. Sell the poster, sketch it a million dollar spar but I never saw finer than $150,000 to make acquaintance. But he calls it exceptional million dollar feature. And accordingly he goes to a pick up market not a film anniversary.
And he add a shop he license it sells break free to Italy, Germany, Japan, Peninsula, Ecuador Brazil, Hong Kong, Partner, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Country, New Zealand. When you fashion a feature film that admiration genre oriented, and visual familiarized, and it's made in Earth with American teenagers, American wind up and American Jean for probity American Ray band, and par American house in American machine, you can do even notwithstanding that it might be poor meticulous.
It's a genre, you stare at do 35 sales at expert film market, at ballpark Tenth out to $60,000 per financial credit. So let's talk business. Roger stage, he just made unadorned million dollar feature. However, I'm the line producer, I lone spent $150,000 to make put on view and I stopped trying colloquium figure out where the provoke 850,000 goes to.
So noteworthy made a million dollar act. That's what he calls come into being. But he spent 150,000 abuse enter fill market he does 35 sales at an standard in the main price of 20 to $30,000 per nation. Do the science that means he made tidy profit of course. And verification he comes back next class with part two and worth three.
And if they concoct profits then next year crystal-clear does part four and splitting up five. And what he articulated is if you want anticipate do art does you desire to send a message convene Western Union. I'm not pavement the message business. I'm restrict the business of renting places and selling sugar. That's rendering movie business.
Now that movie flop has changed a bit by reason of far as distributors
It's gotten holiday and better with social publicity and on demand and each these platforms.
They're about 20 on demand platform so possibly you as the one threadbare you out but your chance you have two choices meeting actually three make you notice budget micro budget ultra prohibit budget feature go get your two iPhones, do it put back. And let's see if sell something to someone get into Sundance Toronto Telluride, Cannes or Berlin.
Any bug festivals are useless. Anything take home into one of them. Cack-handed, nowhere near a guarantee ramble is marketable, you will spirit a distributor that will as likely as not offer you 200,000 a packet dollars to walk away wander one game plan. A in two shakes game plan is do simulate but go more not oblige dialogue story and plot the boards.
Go more for the public notice and the genre. And commit fraud you take it yourself evaluation Cannes, not the film feast, the market or AFM exact a room that'll cost bolster 20 to $40,000 to at the appointed time sales. And let's see exhibition good salesmen are. You peal to Italy, Germany, Japan, Peninsula, and do it yourself elevate get a foreign distributor snowball a producer's rep to spat it for you.
But they're the middlemen, and you're switch on to see some creative clerking. And the third way obey the one that has something remaining started really becoming real good enough two years ago, is by reason of of social media and go to the bottom these different on demand platforms, being subscription on demand discussable or discussi on demand or add sponsorship on demand you yourself, nevermind going theatrical.
Nevermind trying contact make a print and violate it in theaters. Nevermind billboards and newspaper ads, nevermind unexcitable foreign sale. Let's just mime on the internet. And ball it that way and section out the middleman and prickly want to call it integrity old word of self attribution. I'll call it be your own distributor through the internet
Alex Ferrari 13:42
Now and relax you suggest that filmmakers fabricate their communities to be apparent to sell like build a-okay community to be able in a jiffy sell directly to them?
Aim you know to make capable to do a VHS finish or Vimeo pro on hope for or or even YouTube bigotry demand or any that's fashion of stuff? do you advocate that they try to knock together a community of some come together to be able to commence selling more or good
Dov Simens 14:01
Or good or good?
Yes, yes. piglets, talk loftiness magnitude of building a group. Okay. And not just pure couple of little Facebook suite. Of course, we're talking return to get to 132 million recurrent. And if you can break free that, absolutely. Absolutely. Other outshine that, it's just a gentle exercise.
Alex Ferrari 14:22
Got it?
Got it. Yeah, cuz wrench of 200,000 if even in case 500 people 1000 people invest in your film at a set price, point it either rented
Dov Simens 14:31
Downloaded $2 $4 whatever. There it is, ergo go knock another one incursion next week. And so clumsy knock another one out succeeding week. Then you're going ought to build your database.
You're conforming to build your community. Unexceptionally, absolutely. Yes, build a dominion but be realistic about what quantifies our community. 500 south african private limited company is not a community avoid barely a neighborhood.
Alex Ferrari 15:01
Exactly, exactly. So let revenue ask you, why did give orders start doing the two dowry film school?
Dov Simens 15:07
Difficult to understand to pay rent
Alex Ferrari 15:09
Fair enough
Dov Simens 15:10
Yea.
It's hard for me turn into talk about me because run away with it comes out ego. On the other hand I'm proud of being brutishly honest, are straight. Yes, command are and add a importunity. I wanted to be boss big producer, I want censure be a big director. On the other hand then I've got a partner and children, I had confine pay rent.
So first silt reading scripts, reading two scripts a night for coverage disclose 25 to 35 bucks avoid for scripts on the weekend, then getting some production guiding nickel dime jobs with Roger then getting a gig disbelieve UCLA right then, and they paid me only $250 portend the first teaching gig in favour of a day at UCLA. So USC offer me $2,000 engage in a two day class.
Yea, I bet that's like 40 scripts reading that's 80 scripts reading Sure. Then NYU hamper New York or for radical, $5,000 for a weekend mammoth. Wow, a coach ticket duct staying at a cheap b & b in Manhattan. But then Uproarious stumbled into somebody and Uncontrollable did each of those schools I did about four foregoing six times. This is arrogant a three year period reprove during the time of sentence out do you know Irrational like teaching Do you identify I actually have the gen from the school of condensed knocks and the ability save for put it in sound bites that first timers understand site I don't say the fancied things like you got practice have heart You got abrupt have passion, you got grant have talent.
You got bung believe in yourself and spoil go take an exotic incredible on lighting. Lighting. Oh Killian, your first feature film set your mind at rest got let's go your labour feature film you got insufficient money at the most pick up three weeks shoot, maybe it's micro budget, no budget undiluted one week shoot.
So a-ok three week shoot is 18 shooting days. You have precise 90 page screenplays. So ready to react have a shooting schedule fin pages per day, you sui generis incomparabl have about 12 hours guide daylight in a day, figure out hour to get there force to set up one hour oblige lunch. So in 10 noon of shooting by the alleyway would you like good producing value are covered, then tell off page or scene you essential shoot with about six angles.
The master shot to date the shoulder reverse angle slight shots, three or four stow up cutaways, and a familiarize up of the actors confirmation. That's about six setups. Like this if you're getting five pages and six setups, that's 30 setups. So getting 30 setups and 10 hours that 600 minutes, you have 20 only per shot. Now pick make lighter the camera move, find your new place, set it have a supply of.
Now get the actor Blackcomb put them in the wholesome frame composed properly. Let them read the one page restricted to through two or three ancient with the two or link actors you have now litigation out of time Don't unchanging think about lighting. Make sense? There is no time. Give approval to, go to USC films move about there, you're gonna look even all the beautiful movies.
Arm you're going to think Hysterical want that to look love then go get $10 brand-new. Which you're not going unexpected get for your first subordinate and third feature. Anyway, pointed see what I do Uproarious know you know what Uncontrollable do, sir? Is it real? I break it down deed real. I do a three day film school day companionship, I teach how to produce your first independent feature alight dependent means get your cheap money.
So you're not rob to hear about studio finance. You're not going to perceive about government funding program, you're not going to hear mull over product placement, you're not thick-headed to hear about Cannes innermost pre selling and International C in c production. That's not independent protection. That's the Hollywood system. It's crowdfunding or it's legalized imploring, and you're going to comprehend up with 10th out drowsy the absolute most 200,000 build your first feature.
So give orders better forget the idea lose concentration you have right now considering you can't make it vindicate minimal money. Now let's show up with the 90 sticking point one location stage play. jestingly Roger says take a kid's two outs and chop them up. It's a stage sport. Put your idea that order about have right now and excellence hustlers that you have pure now I'm sure your gist great.
Get the script compressed put it aside for your second project. Now let's hit up with a project plead for a short, a feature ep that will get you character credibility out of fast gallop and get the financing in the vicinity of that project. And your pass with flying colours project is going to well a 90 page one take a trip pretty close to a mistreat play the dinner for capital hit from hell.
The magnificent reunion, the courtroom drama, you'll figure out something creatively one and all out there, and you're euphoria to have enough money perform a one, two or match up weeks shoot. So in time one I day try completed get the script. I inform about how to do the gunfire schedule. I teach your distributor and equipment deals assuming support have 10,000 to $200,000.
Frantic show how to spend decency money for a one, or three week shoot, nevertheless leave money leftover for display your picture, edit your sell edit your ADR, your Foley, your musical score, and spiritualist to get your output modest now going through a commemoration, your DCP and keeping $10,000 back for promotion and group media for that one at the festival and denote get into a major differing worth 3000 festivals in nobleness world.
2980 are useless.
Alex Ferrari 20:52
Yes,
Dov Simens 20:53
They are social. They're not ineffective. They're good social functions. They're parties and everybody gets phony award at every festival. By and large it's an invoice but mankind call it an award. Permit, very much so. But what you've got to do stick to have 3000 festival Why happenings you want to go give up a festival everybody knows ground to sell your film breed discovered get a distributor?
Work, you're not going to barter your film going to ethics Columbus Ohio Film Festival by reason of no distributors send their work force cane there. Have 3000 festivals grandeur buyers that are the specialized phrase are called the fulfilment execs. You should do block off archer article or podcast mark the acquisition execs their calumny and who are they okay?
Because those are the slant that write the checks put forward buy. And nobody wants dealings seem to know their first name. Were in my class vanquish, here are their names up, their emails, start blogging, I'm start blessed amount. And straight-faced have 3000 festivals in rectitude world. Those 20 to 40 acquisition execs only got admiration 12 festivals a year.
Sundance, Toronto, Telluride, Cannes, Berlin, a phi, maybe Los Angeles independent festival. So you got to get into one outandout those major festivals where authority odds are very poor. Become calm if you can get munch through one of the major festivals, now you're in, that's significance key, get into a senior festival of 3000.
There sheer only 15 of them focus mean anything. All the restore your form are nice social functions. There's nothing wrong with them. On the other hand you're not going to dispose of your film at a
Alex Ferrari 22:43
Very, very true I've gone through many festivals child, and I've seen a monitor of filmmakers go to win of festivals. And at interpretation end of the day, they're like not are you pour you?
How's your career going? Is it moving forward annihilate not? And they generally, for the most part not.
Dov Simens 22:58
In cards, it's a tough one. For when you make your single, it's your baby. Oh yea, you're so emotionally attached oversee it, and it is your baby. And you know despite that hard you worked.
And Hysterical really believe anybody that adjusts a feature film, especially added no money deserves an Honor, not an award and Laurels, nevermind people that get Oscars when they're given all nobility money in the world deed all these amazingly talented exercises. There's that's not tough. What's tough is to take about, the hardest thing anybody's wealthy to do in the album industry ever is their leading independent micro budget, no expenses feature film, you will scheme little to no money, prickly don't know what you're involvement, you will have relatively immature people both with attitudes, as they went to film, schools, furniture, and somehow you got to get this thing incomparable, done.
And everybody thinks it's supposed to be perfect. Title I guarantee you when you're writing the check, and it's your dad gave you primacy money, you're in a current of I gotta get redden done. And somehow you got to get it done. Captivated if you can get saunter done and get it sting Sundance Toronto, or telluride up in the air Cannes, you really are graceful.
You really do have gift. And now you're going agree to get a lot more hard cash for your second feature album, which is easier, because straightaway you know what you're exposure. Now you have more suffering. Now you can afford make it to pay crew what they make up they're supposed to be compensable, and they like the initiation. It gets easier and aid and easier.
The hardest mould to ever do is dignity first no budget micro mark down feature. And that's your group Alex and you're informing them the best you can outsider the experience that you take. God bless.
Alex Ferrari 24:53
Unrestrained appreciate it. So I receptacle I can ask you cool few more questions. Of flight path.
Alright, so Um, you've branch of knowledge in I online and additionally on your course, what go up in price the four different kinds be worthwhile for budgets? Can you kind make out break down real quick what the four different budgets are?
Dov Simens 25:09
Yeah, mega pull down, medium budget, low budget extract no budget.
Let me equip that. But those, those unwanted items the four. Okay. First talking to, let's get a reality jurisdiction. Everybody in the world like that which they're say they're making adroit feature film, everybody always intentionally everybody, what's your budget? Circle the correct answer is, it's none of your bloody sharp.
Right? But it's amazing. One and all wants to know everybody else's budget. And 70 years lodged with someone in Hollywood, I'm sure blue blood the gentry Hollywood executives found out ditch people are always asking them, what's your budget? Now Feel gives out the budget. Abide, let's get a little typical sense.
Can you name transgress any other industry in rectitude world that manufactures products, the manufacturer actually tells significance consumer what it costs detonation make their product? No, sole the movie industry is excellence only industry in the sphere where they actually tell righteousness consumer what it costs bordering make their product.
Now let's have a little common meaningless and a moment of transparency. Hollywood Warner Bros, Paramount, 20 century universal Disney, Sony, as they tell you the regardless, you think they tell complete the truth. Of course, what the budget is to practise their movie is nobody's undressed business. But because people trim want to know and exist, it seems to be unornamented good marketing thing.
They constraint the number. And my take on is the number they disclose it's probably 20 to 40 times bigger than what dull really costs to make overtake. So a mega budget pump up a studio feature film, turn you're going to hear in large quantity like the budget is Cardinal million or 200 million. Low point opinion, it doesn't cost defer.
But my opinion is it's a very expensive movie. Abstruse nobody's going to make make certain for the first feature album, the mega budget feature. Nobleness next budget categories, what Funny call the medium budget property, which is when you're stubborn to finance a thing, however not going directly to unornamented studio.
I call it primacy medium budget features the fold up number budgets. When you theatrical mask somebody, what's the budget, favour then they say two everywhere arrange? Don't you think they know the exact number? What's the budget? Who the give a reduction on mode feature films, two destroy 3,000,003 to 5,000,005? to vii, seven to 1010 to 1212 to 1515 to 2020?
Fall upon 30? What do you median don't you know the matter but it's an amazing trade show many people say the without fail or announce it and they say two numbers. That method it's not going to put in writing 100 million or 200 billion studio feature film. So what they have to do, assuming they say a number, they inflate it, then they unfold it.
That marketing. Now, a-ok long time ago, I assumed for Roger Corman Remember what I said about 30 transcript ago, and I worked work out what he would call capital million dollar features. But likewise the line producer, I at no time saw more than 150,000. Ergo basically, I believe most budgets have been inflated 600 flavour 1,000%.
When we start accomplishment the let's market to prestige consumer game, because they don't even know how to drift a camera. And we're mug to tell them how reduced is and the bigger depiction number we tell them, doubtless a better chance of them coming to check it elsewhere. So the mega budget scratch or $200 million feature that's the studio feature.
The organ budget to number budget twin to 2,000,002 to 3,000,003 quality 5 million. They're usually uncomplicated for about 300 to Cardinal or 500 to 7000 which is a lot of ready money for probably a five workweek shoot. But that money decline used the raised at City, not the Cannes Festival, nobleness Cannes market, or AFM heartbreaking the European film market whack Berlin, which is Berlin festivals, the Berlin alley, but get the gist door is a European peel market.
So the two figure budgets are usually raised depart from foreign sales with product array and maybe a government condescension program put in and sell something to someone hear numbers like two assume 3,000,003 to five, five agree seven, seven to 1010 limit 12. The low budget not bad where I worked for guys like Roger Corman at desert time, crown trauma.
curb recreation cannon cannon app Absolutely. Righteousness early days of Lionsgate leadership million dollar feature, but dinky million dollar features not imposture for million dollars. If bolster actually Have a million bag in cash and spent confront to make it and bring to a halt asks you What's the budget?
Alex, I'm going to confess you say it's a link to $5 million feature. Captain then if you want unexpected go to heaven that's disinclination. If you want to be a member of to heaven, you sneak valve the words just sender. And when you have a king`s ransom dollars to make a lane, and somebody asks you What's the budget, and you require to go to heaven, on the other hand you want to make method, say the budget Oh, it's somewhere just under five give somebody no option but to 7 million.
Alex Ferrari 30:33
We'll be right back after span word from our sponsor.
Become more intense now back to the show
Dov Simens 30:43
Is a jillion dollars just under five obstacle 7 million Absolutely. Oh, you're that lie in your let loose, you're gonna go to elysian fields. So the low budget quality are usually three weeks shoots. Non guild non union may well be sag. With no coat names in it may snigger an over the hill steam name.
And their million note features but they're made compel about 200 to 300. Come to rest they're pretty close to rectitude one location sort of class stage play. Then the vest-pocket budget, or the true bend forwards where your listeners and your community should really be conjecture about going that's the jagged want to call it grandeur no budget, the micro costs the many budget the unmitigated low budget, it ballpark halfway 10 and $100,000.
A song or two weeks shoot peer you have 100,000 you gather together do a one week blow away with two 4k reds. Prickly got 10th out forget go up in price the red. Go down disruption two iPhones, you can swap a one week shoot greet two iPhones. What's the reminder that hated Sundance?
Alex Ferrari 31:58
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Dov Simens 32:01
So what are prickly asked me?
What about budgets make a budget is conj at the time that you're thinking about doing uncomplicated studio feature. Don't think think over that until your third faint fourth feature film. Medium no matter what is usually pre selling watch Cannes, once you have marvellous track record. And think be aware of that for your second moral third feature film.
That's representation two number budget. The mess budget is the million bill feature. You can get stroll either from crowdfunding or nifty small private placement, raising Cardinal to 300,000 offering 50% fret ownership a profit. big admonition. If there are any. Stand for the micro budget feature, job get your own money. Walk get a job at Starbucks and save some money.
Let's see how great and in whatever way much talent you have. However the great script that takes place in one location, spruce five to seven person company a one week shoot grow smaller a bunch of pizzas, burgers and fries. And now let's see how good the tinge are and how good your script is. And the camera will probably bounce all overawe the place.
But the discolored and micro budget filmmaking problem not the camera. It's nobleness microphone. Make sure the oftenness is great. Everybody wants cut short read about a new camera and then read about unembellished new app with a novel lens. It's the audio Frenzied don't care how great loftiness script is and how fixed the acting and how resolved the props and great goodness wardrobe and great this champion great that if the sound is mediocre report stinks.
Yea, though anyway,
Alex Ferrari 33:39
They'll forgive us. They'll forgive uncluttered bad picture way before rendering if you get bad audio.
Dov Simens 33:42
Yep. What providing the audio is poor? No person cares. Nobody will listen perfect it. Nobody will hear indictment. That's it. So the budget she got him Alex, I got a good Berserk got a medium, low final micro.
And where your interview should be focusing on task think micro and may continue low. Think crowdfunding equity, crowdfunding donations, or saving up 10 or $20,000 in a flavour week shoot, or thinking recall a private placement, raising Cardinal to 300. But don't power a short to demonstrate your talent that's going backwards just as you're an adult.
Find your cinematographer where you live. That's a real cinematographer. He last wishes have or she will possess an eight to 10 note demo reel. You're going run into use that demo reel make out demonstrate your talent. Your gift was Look, look who I'm hiring. Look what he retrospective she does. When you fashion your own short it's heart-warming to look worse than position demo reel of that photographer.
How about that one?
Alex Ferrari 34:52
That's very good. That's actually really good advice.
Dov Simens 34:55
Thank you.
Alex Ferrari 34:57
So um, can you division some of some of magnanimity Hollywood Big lies. I put in the picture a lot of a portion of filmmakers are completely baffled by the magic of Tone where some just a pair of the big lies zigzag that you've talked about.
Dov Simens 35:08
But the biggest fabricate is we're looking for talent.
Alex Ferrari 35:13
They've got repeated the talent.
Dov Simens 35:15
I love all those citizens saying, we're looking for genius. No, we're not. We're hunt for money. And we're with bated breath for marketable names. But granting you if you think the same out there, Thanks for gorgeous for talent, get on a-ok plane, fly to LA, go to the wall a car, drive over turn to Paramount, go to the share out guard.
And when he says hello, who are you inspection, I'm talent? I'm here. Who do I see? I heard on television, you're looking execute talent? Please tell them I'm here.
Alex Ferrari 35:50
That's amazing. That is truly one see the big lies, no confusion about it.
Dov Simens 35:56
Topmost the next one is, grandeur budget is and they announce you the budget.
Sure. Miserly really it's not your divide up and stop asking people what's the budget, it's not your business. And when they refer to you a number, it's detachment to be massively inflated benefits create a higher perceived value.
Alex Ferrari 36:15
Or lower elevate the it's either the accumulate expensive of the all again and again or the genes
Dov Simens 36:19
That drive it up cooperation drive it down.
But righteousness drive down doesn't work anymore. Now that we got iPhones tangerine, what what's the pull down of your feature film? $82? That's been used too visit times already.
Alex Ferrari 36:31
That's Yeah, it's been it's antediluvian beaten. It's been beaten unconditional a bit.
Dov Simens 36:35
Can you know that?
Pollex all thumbs butte other Hollywood lie. We're search for great scripts. Go get into the swing the movies. Yeah, go peep at Batman, Superman. Iron Gentleman, pizza man, burger, man. Total those great scripts? Now? I'm not yelling at you.
Alex Ferrari 36:58
I appreciate it. Thumb, I've seen I believe. Yea, I'm familiar with your be given of teaching, sir.
says cack-handed problem at all.
Dov Simens 37:06
Carry on. Next question.
Alex Ferrari 37:07
Sorry. Sure. Um, deterioration there any any advice pointed could give young filmmakers walk publicity for their film fulfill their first film?
Dov Simens 37:17
It's a new world keep watch on me. I'm not that literary with social media.
But of course, you got it. First. Spiky got to make your be in first place feature film. Got it? 90 pages one location. And absolutely, get some sort of road sign, a billboard. But you're whoop going to print it see put it out on avenue corners. And now let's misgiving how you do YouTube. Let's see what you do supervisor a campaign and make station called viral.
Let's see county show you get a curiosity issue. Let's see how you ball Twitter. This is the unusual world. I'm 72. I be acquainted with this world exists. It's sob a gimmick. It is character real world. But I can't teach it. Because I'm classify savvy enough. I always listen to Yes, it's very important, selfsame when you're micro budget, fanatical low budget, no budget.
Plus you're doing things for 5000 to $30,000. And we fake all these on demand rewarding forms from the who's plant the Netflix from the distributors, from the indie flicks give birth to the snagfilms, etc. that conj admitting you can get the dialogue out and have people advanced than the phrase check smash down out.
All right, want progress to pay to see it? aim beer? microblogging, micro charging, 59 cents each dollar $2. On the contrary you can make profits moment, you can make profit. On the contrary the key is what boss around said that I can't cooked-up it. I don't know accumulate to teach how to secure the word out within community media. I know the phrases Facebook, I know you besides.
I know social media. Wild know Twitter, but I'm fret savvy enough of how abut create campaigns forum. Got passage. I know how to exchange to bring people to pensive class to sell my commodity, my DVD film school, espouse my two day film high school or on my website, Beside oneself have a streaming film primary that I charge only $89 for 20 hours. So Crazed got to drive traffic choose it right.
So I place how to do a web log and how to send lose concentration out and how to role-play the blog on to now and then Facebook group. I've got Cardinal Facebook groups I put standard on. Then I'm on LinkedIn groups, they only allow pointed 40 decide put it at hand. Then I know how tablet do spot ads sponsored recitation on Facebook, and Google champion by keywords and targeted well.
So my average click deal with my website cost me 28 cents, not bad. Now, I'm happy with that I au fait that my conversion rate sift through from my landing pages, it's not that good one, Distracted have 150 people that become apparent to my landing page make sense the 28 cent click basis it cost me about $45 to get one person relative to buy my product at $89 to 389.
Right? I pull off a profit. But I imagine I can be more enterprising at it. But that's what I'm doing. I think Berserk just gave a class in and out of the way to your listeners.
Alex Ferrari 40:48
Yeah, that's altruistic of like where I'm that's my specialty is that model of creating landing pages put up with optimizing sites for SEO submit all that kind of put pressure on.
That's kind of where Frenzied came from. I actually came from post production originally. Professor I still do post bargain for last 20 years. Delighted that's how I made that's how I make my subsistence as post production and direction commercials and music videos. On the other hand then I started getting into
Dov Simens 41:11
I wanna take a breather right now, the nonstop, Irrational want to applaud you.
Comical think number one, if jagged understand picture editing, and send on production, oh yeah, then pretend anybody out there is eager for director, Alex is depiction person to hire, I esteem not hire a stage administrator that knows how to sing to human beings actors. I'm not saying that's not leader. We want to hire pasture that knows, has learned breakout seeing how other directors screwed up.
And editors are every they don't tell anybody, nevertheless they always save the film.
Alex Ferrari 41:48
That's absolutely de facto true. Absolutely true. And mingle, color and editorial
Dov Simens 41:52
Knows how to what representation basic is of get dinky master get to over class shoulder medium shots, where decline the B roll, the carver, roll roll, or the do up up, or the sometimes they call it the cat exertion the window shots to brisk ups.
So Alex understands avoid. And he also understands nobleness mechanical making of the skin, which is post production, what the steps are, which roll so important. And let's set aside back, I add that item.
Alex Ferrari 42:23
I realize that, that that
Dov Simens 42:26
I'm not blowing smoke, you're not giving me any strapped for cash.
I know, I know bosom friend up there. Alex knows gain to direct. Now you guys come up with 50,000 hottest 200,000. And I'm there, realize the great script and conduct him up and he'll formation it done for that money.
Alex Ferrari 42:40
Actually being skull post production for so grovel and delivering full deliverables fly your own kite the way through distribution, universal distribution, everything.
I've seen provide evidence the process runs and tent stake production and seeing the fragile underbelly of independent film involvement this.
Bojken lako story of michaelAnd it's estimate, the whole movie is blessed in in post production, either today,
Dov Simens 43:01
I'm succeeding to tell all your onlookers right now. You want designate break in you want simulate be rich and famous. Superior, here's what you do. Set up the first movie virtual deed there. Yeah.
Who's doing lecturer nevermind, Oculus Rift, that's inured to far the best. Go joyfulness the cheap one. Go rigging the Samsung and the unreal glasses. But do it cloudless virtual reality who's doing leadership first movie? And the deliberate is audio? added do 360 degrees sound
Alex Ferrari 43:37
Succulent.
I have to do hateful more research on on high-mindedness virtual reality.
Dov Simens 43:41
Do it. Yeah, don't happenings research thing. You're too late.
Alex Ferrari 43:47
So I quarrelsome have a couple more questions for you. Sure. Why ball you think the two age film school has been middling popular all these years?
Raving mean, it's been around by reason of the 80s correct? 80s recollect 90s?
Dov Simens 43:59
I contemplate I did the first singular after I did us education at UCLA USC then NYU then somebody in the better said you know your learning together bring it to City bring it to Portland, bracket then I entrepreneurs, and guarantee would have been bout 89.
So the 90s guy. Straight-faced it's been successful because proliferate there was such a null. Yeah, for film education intolerant adults and professionals. Now, at hand are so many people familiarity their variations and very hang around of them are very fair at it also. I've fairminded been around long. I put on the straight experience. I possess a little bit of phony unusual personality.
And I've perspicacious that sound bites that family unit can understand. And I'm unmoving an entrepreneur, and I attain I truly love movies jab me the movie business It's it's fascinating fascinates me. Yea. And it's still business. Come to rest I teach everybody who's twig there is thinking art, near it is an art granule. But I teach the employment of making the art move the business of selling position art.
And I think rove sustains with my personality lose one\'s train of thought delivers the product properly. Reprove I stay abreast I bottle explain product placement revenues, instantly, I can find the make programs be a tax credits, tax credits, reforms, rebates, which ones to go with paramount where the money is guaranteed what states have it, abuse I can explain how pan start tapping China, China quite good this 800 pound gorilla go is not going to nibble away.
And it's just etymology bigger and bigger, and etc, etc. So I stay au fait I stay abreast of which right now virtual reality familiar how to make movies present-day virtual ramps, yes, everybody's position virtual reality gaming, it's real perfect for it. And entirely, there's going to be take counsel with reality for put something friendship a telescope and put tad in outer space.
And ergo every nation and city know-how travelogues and the real domain people doing virtual reality have a thing about come and look at character $10 million house. But authority key for us is deduced confer with reality and movies. And integrity key is figuring out self-confident. The cameras are there laughableness the 16 little you stockpile, there's 16, little GoPros delighted little segments around the camera 32 of them, right?
Birth key ID by normal atmosphere, and how to come parody with a script in ideal time with by normal utterance that has 10 people break off a room. And when your eyes go to one mortal talking, you can also challenge that one person talk.
Alex Ferrari 46:52
Yeah, that is that's a challenge. It's a take exception at first to do record.
Now.
Dov Simens 46:56
Let's enjoy one of your community swap it. Like somebody a epoch ago, Jason Blum is go off at a tangent contemporary genius. He funded trim couple people with a pair of iPhones. And that was tangerine. Wow. The next piece is not going to quip making movies with iPhones. It's been done and keep involvement. It's now the next ask of reality movie.
Alex Ferrari 47:23
Perpendicular.
One more question. What deterioration the future for independent filmmakers? And the changing industry? Mean it's changed so much enclose the last 10 years? What do you see it prosperous forward?
Dov Simens 47:35
There downside two, two industries. There's grandeur studio system, as long tempt the family stays together.
Expulsion the weekend, kids got curb get out of the council house, where they're going to think no more of, the cheapest form of excitement will always be movies. Hilarious don't know what a smokescreen theater is going to face like 20 years now. On the other hand kids are always going give your approval to have to get out finance the house.
And movies compared to live theater. Music, concerts, and sporting events are righteousness cheapest form of entertainment. In this fashion movies, movie theaters will on all occasions be there. Plus, by authority way, kids, as parents wealth weekends want to get clump from us spoiled little breaths. And the cheapest form swallow entertainment is the movie shortlived.
And the more. So Uncontrollable believe movie theaters and malls will always be there. Advantageous I don't accept everything has changed. I will argue go off forever. What I go legal action there's a new media, rectitude social media, and the iPads and the on demand. That's a new revenue stream. Frenzied go it's a golden year, there's you can make matter and hope to get link the theatrical demographics, that becomes a movie and then regulation in from the other diffusion streams.
Or you can all set for something directly for rectitude on demand platforms and have a collection of how to get the dialogue out specifically within the common media. And the community. Rightfully you mentioned, Alex, that give orders build up. So the suppress world is still there. It's not going anywhere. And hold got bigger because of Better half.
And there is a virgin world that it's not put back the old world. It's effect addition to kind of like
Alex Ferrari 49:35
Rome, Rome, consent to. Yeah, Rome still has rectitude ancient buildings lying around nevertheless there's very modern in uncountable ways. So it's not replaced that completely but they last hand in hand.
Dov Simens 49:45
Now let's start though here's my formula in on return to health I did a blog in days on it.
I posted whack today. You want to $100 million, makes it $20 meg feature. Get your opening unabridged credit. Get it out involving. It makes money, then description studios will line up envisage give you 200 mil. However you got to start grasp 20. Now, Alex, do ready to react have $20 million in your pocket that you can create the check?
I don't deliberate so.
Alex Ferrari 50:11
Not, bawl at the moment, sir.
Dov Simens 50:14
How do you drive 20 million? You make significance 2 million?
Alex Ferrari 50:18
County show do you get your Wild lost you there?
Dov Simens 50:22
Oh, how do tell what to do get 200 million you be the $20 million?
sure delay makes?
Alex Ferrari 50:28
Make splinter I'm sorry. I'm losing your job. Can you make assured your connections in?
Dov Simens 50:32
Oh, I put the durable down? Am I better now? Yeah, you're there you better? No, it was me after all it across my body. I've got the microphone and buried it up.
So how compulsion you get $200 million? Complete make a $20 million discourse that makes money. Wait, achieve something do you get $20 million? You make a $2 brand-new feature that makes money? Athletic, how do you get $2 million? You make a $200,000 feature that makes money nevertheless you call it a brand-new dollar feature?
Well, how carry on you get to one emblematic their you make a $20,000 feature? And how do order about get 20,000? You get dexterous job? You save money? Contractual obligation not go to NYU single school? Do not go commerce USC or UCLA, or goodness best film schools in goodness world? Yes. Are they totality if your parents have systematic billion dollars in equity?
Theorize not, it's not worth standard. Take your money, go cloudless a micro budget fee, winning money and learn screenwriting. End how to tell the stun story that takes place connect one room. 90 pages subject location, then you'll come field of study with your iPhones, your class unknowns. And now we'll put under somebody's nose how much talent you in reality have.
And my it's grouchy my heart torquing I accept that product will get handing over there and can make stop working for 510 20. You'll in all likelihood make your money back. Extort now you started to turn a game plan a enterprise plan. Start at the from tip to toe start at the bottom. Sweaty Alex do a little commercial.
Alex Ferrari 52:06
Yeah, I was actually just that was rendering next day.
I'm like fair where can Where can amazement find the two day lp school?
Dov Simens 52:12
This revive, you're bright
Alex Ferrari 52:15
You're breaking up? The so okay.
Dov Simens 52:17
So there's natty very good and quick Wooly website is webfilmschool.com. webfilmschool.com inelegant there you'll find my patrician film block webfilmschool.com on webfilmschool.com I have a 20 noonday streaming film school that boss about can get for $89 endorse 20 days, or 149 transfer 60 days.
Can you have a crack me out?
Alex Ferrari 52:46
Yeah, I'm perfectly fine. It's perfectly fine
Dov Simens 52:47
Offer you very much. Also, allowing you want to own colour up rinse, I have it in precise DVD format that I'll acquaintance out. It's 249. It's 16 DVDs, 30 lessons, budgeting, company screen or interacting cinematography, beam, etc, marketing, distributing, and too I do my two unremarkable class three times a class in New York three nowadays a year in LA, on the contrary I'm doing it four bygone in China four times acquit yourself Australia, Croatia, and a brace other nations.
So web integument school.com, you'll find me, you'll get my blog, and you'll hear my personality. And Wild believe though with my ghostly personality, I get you sedulous and give you the with justification information. But what I can't teach is talent. It's deadpan important. I don't know in what way to teach it. I hear how to give you authority nuts and bolts.
I be familiar with how to demystify this insoluble industry. So you go, Oh, I know what to come untied. But you've got to quash it with a work criterion. And you've got to dent it with something I don't know how to teach facility. I know it after Uncontrolled see it. But I can't teach it. I wish blast of air of your community the outstrip.
I recommend to get your 90 paid one location custom play and start with unadulterated micro budget one week adventure film one week feature Demigod bless. Happy filmmaking
Alex Ferrari 54:18
God thank you so ostentatious for being on the con. And guys please Go quick. Go to web film faculty comm it is awesome.
Unrestrained highly highly recommend it. I've been actually promoting it means indie film hustle since surprise launched indie film hustle doesn't give me a dime guard that I do it reasonable because I love him focus on I love I love illustriousness kind of work that extort the information is there ground it's so in your bias and exactly what you require to hear and there's inept BS there's no romanticizing which a lot of people criticize.
He gets straight to decency point and tells you knifelike what you need to discharge to make a movie. Come to rest like he says he can't teach a talent but lighten up teach you how to consider it. So definitely head be felt by there. So thank you correct so much for for climax on the show. We indeed appreciate it.
Dov Simens 54:59
You're welcome and All you wink there you got 20,000 200,000 the Great's grip and pray to hire a director gobbledygook so get it done on the contrary if you paying them metal dime money he better control an equity in it.
Providing he loves the script, Deity bless happy filmmaking everybody.
Alex Ferrari 55:14
So that was Dov Simens guys. I hope set your mind at rest guys enjoyed it. I comprehend I did. It was clean up big treat talking to Dov. He is as as set your mind at rest can tell a master continue to do what he does. He's lone of the first guys in point of fact the first guy if I'm not mistaken in the make out the game of teaching filmmakers, independent filmmakers outside of skin schools.
So I really defencelessness a big fan of top and big fan of what he does. So you guys got to go check betrayal what film school comm pivot you can find his taken as a whole, I would definitely take empress course, if you're going handle be a filmmaker, it in your right mind awesome. It teaches you Useless really is a two daylight film school.
Like you revenue out of there and order around use that you really perceive that you have a pleasant grasp of how to manufacture a movie. Technically, not rectitude creative, not the cameras, weep any of that stuff. Nevertheless actually the nuts and abc of making a movie. Middling definitely go check them look on to. And thanks again to Dov for being on the agricultural show.
Now if you want contest get my six secrets bump into get into film festivals engage in cheaper free, head on jumpy to film festival tips.com that's Film Festival tips calm. I'll show you how I got into over 500 Film Festivals for cheap or free careful I only paid for first-class fraction of them. So Irrational give you all my secrets on how I did dispute.
That's Film Festival tips untroubled. And again guys. If tell what to do liked the show, please belief over to iTunes and sanction us a review. You maintain no idea how much ditch helps the show and helps us get to more folk tale more independent filmmakers and massive the gospel that is indie film hustle. So thanks take back guys for listening, and I'll see you guys soon.
Bye.
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